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Destruction of 'Godfather of Vaccinology' by US Lawyer Aaron Siri: Highlights from the 9 Hour long Deposition of Dr. Stanley Plotkin. (Jan 11, 2018).


Ms.Lori Matheson filed a case in the court of law to prevent her ex husband Michael Schmidt from vaccinating her 10 year old daughter Faith against her religious beliefs. Michael Schmidt brought in Dr. Stanley Plotkin (aka Godfather of Vaccines) as an expert witness. Ms. Matheson's Lawyer Aaron Siri destroyed Dr. Plotkin in a 9 hour long grilling so much so that the next day Dr. Plotkin refused to be an expert witness. Schmidt's legal team took back Dr. Plotkin's deposition so that it could not be used in favor of Ms. Matheson. And final outcome was that the mother was ordered to vaccinate her child according to CDC 'recommendations.' The brave mother lost the case but this case shed the light on the corrupt, Godless, cold blooded and horrific so called 'scientists' and 'scientific community' of our times. This case uncovers the various conflicts of interests the doctors and scientists are involved in these days and also reveals the fact that there are no studies comparing health of Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated children or how there is No single placebo control randomized control pre approval vaccine safety study for any of the vaccines in the CDC's list of vaccines. 

 "Sacrificing your beliefs, thoughts, choices, your parental rights and even yourself- physically and mentally for the greater good of the society; individual is nothing compared to a herd = 'Public Health' = Communist Dictatorship."
9 Hour long Deposition of Dr. Stanley Plotkin.

Watch the arrogance of Dr. Plotkin destroyed in first few minutes of the deposition.

At 16:30: About Sponsorships of Doctors, Scientists by Big Pharma.

  • Lawyer asks Dr. Plotkin about his numerous trips in and outside the US and who sponsors them.
  • Dr. Plotkin admits he had many trips and around half of them were sponsored by vaccine manufacturers. Click here.
  • Lawyer: What's your trip to France for?
  • Dr. Plotkin says he was going there to teach in an Advance Vaccinology Course in Annecy (a town in France).
  • Lawyer: Who is sponsoring the course?
  • Dr. Plotkin: University of Geneva and The Gates Foundation.
  • Lawyer: And your trip to Germany?
  • Dr. Plotkin: I will be going to a biotechnology company that is trying to develop a vaccines based on RNA.
  • Lawyer: Do you have a position or affiliation with that company?
  • Dr. Plotkin: No, I am simply on their scientific board.
  • Lawyer: And your trip to India? Purpose of that one?
  • Dr. Plotkin: To discuss vaccination against Chikungunya virus.
  • Lawyer: Who are those discussions with?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, it under the aegis of CEPI.
  • Dr. Plotkin admits he doesn't know that plaintiff or defendant name neither does he know the child's name, age and his vaccination history. 
  • Dr. Plotkin admits that he doesn't know whether or not the child has any contraindications for CDC recommended vaccination history.
Upto 28:00: 
  • The lawyer summarizes along with Dr. Plotkin about the number of vaccines and doses of each vaccine the child should take. (Which is a bit scary-to see how many doses of vaccines children get growing up).
  • Dr. Plotkin says he developed one of the Rotavirus vaccine, Rotateq (Merck).

38:20: About Dr. Plotkin's Financial Dealings with the Big Pharma.

  • Lawyer: Is there a year since 1990 that you have not received any kind of payment of remuneration from Sanofi? (Dr. Plotkin had admitted that he was Medical and Scientific director of Sanofi-Pastor in the 1990s to early 2000s, which prompted the lawyer to ask this question.)
  • Dr. Plotkin: Probably not. No.
  • Lawyer: How much would be the approximate total payments you received from Sanofi in your lifetime?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Oh my God. I have no idea.
Around 42:00: 
  • Dr. Plotkin admits he runs a company called Vaxconsult which aims are making tax related issues easy for the Vaccine manufacturing companies.
  • Lawyer: So you are saying 'Voices for vaccines' (the group which approached Dr. Plotkin to be an expert witness on behalf of the child's father) does not receive any funding from Pharmaceutical companies?
  • Dr. Plotkin: None.
  • Lawyer: What's your affiliation with that group?
  • Dr. Plotkin: I was the one who suggested that there should be a group of lay people, as opposed to scientists, would be a good idea to oppose all of the nonsense that one sees on the web from the anti vaccination organizations.
  • Lawyer: So it was your idea to create Voices for Vaccines?
  • Dr. Plotkin: It was my sole idea, it was a suggestion that I made at a certain point and it turned out that there were lay people who were interested in promoting vaccines. Since then I have been on their advisory board, other than that I have no role in that organization.
  • Lawyer presents a printout of the website of Voices for Vaccines and points out to Dr. Plotkin that in the last page, at the very end, it (website) says "Voices for Vaccines is an administrative project of the Task Force for Global Health." And it receives funding from that organization?
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. It does not contribute financially for Voices for Vaccines.
  • Lawyer presents Dr. Plotkin with a form 90 tax return for the Task Force for Global Health. "In the second page, do you see section 4c? Where there is expense of 3757924 USD. Do you see that one of the groups receiving funding from that money was 'Voices for Vaccines'? 
  • Dr. Plotkin struggles to find it but later finds after the lawyer insists. But Dr. Plotkin says as far as he knows Task Force for Global Health only provides financial paper work that is required by the government for Voices for Vaccines and Voices for Vaccines does not receive any money.
  • Lawyer: So you agree Task Force for Global Health does provide some sort of support to Voices for Vaccines, correct?
  • Dr. Plotkin: It does, yes.
  • Lawyer: Does the Task Force for Global Heath receive any funding from any of the big 4 Pharmaceutical companies? (Pfizer, Merck, GSK, Sanofi).
  • Dr. Plotkin: I think they receive funding from the CDC but as far as i know, not from Pharma companies.
  • Lawyer hands Dr. Plotkin another document which shows that Task Force for Global Health does receive funding from Pharma Companies. However I don't see that has any bearing for the work for Voices for Vaccines.
  • Lawyer: Does the NIH hold any patents on any vaccine related technology?
  • Dr. Plotkin: I believe they do. Yes.
  • Lawyer: Do they receive royalties from those patents? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: They do. Yes.
  • Dr. Plotkin testifies that he contributed in development of vaccines to Rubella, Rotavirus, Rabies, Anthrax, Cytomegalovirus, Varicella, which are being used by public.
  • Lawyer: How did you contribute to Varivax (varicella vaccine)?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Essentially by showing how it could be used and demonstrating that it was safe and effective.
  • Lawyer: Did you work with Merck directly on that?
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't recall whether it was directly or not. I don't recall if they actually funded my studies on Varicella vaccines. But they were the producers of these vaccines for sure.
  • Lawyer: Where were you working with at this time?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Children's Hospital Philadelphia.
  • Lawyer: Have you developed or partnered with any vaccine for which you received any payment revenue or income related to the sale of that vaccine. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. But all of the patents of the vaccines which I have developed have been taken out by the institutions I had been working and they gave me part of the profits deriving from the patents.
  • Lawyer: Which vaccines were those?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Rubella, Rotavirus and Rabies. Mainly.
  • Lawyer: The Rubella vaccine that you developed is part of the current MMR vaccine?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Correct.
  • Lawyer: And this is the vaccine you believe the pediatricians should give to the child (Faith was the name used for the child in this case).
  • Dr. Plotkin: Absolutely.
  • Lawyer: What is the total amount of payments in any form which you have directly or indirectly received in sale of the Rubella vaccine? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I can not give you the figure, I do not doubt it was substantial amount of money.
  • Lawyers summarizes same arguments about Rotavirus (as he did with Rubella virus above).

1:21:34: Plotkin gets upset for exposing his financial dealing with vaccine makers.

  • Lawyer: You are here opining that Faith (the girl in center of this case) should receive vaccines made by the 4 big pharmaceutical companies. Correct?
  • Dr. Plotkin: I am. Yes.
  • Lawyer: And you didn't anticipate that your financial dealings with those companies would be relevant to that issue
  • Dr. Plotkin: I guess No I did not perceive that was relevant to my opinion of whether a child should receive vaccines. Vaccines have to be made by somebody and of course in this world they are made by pharmaceutical companies who make profits on vaccines. The fact that they make profits of vaccines has no bearing on whether those vaccines are good for a child or not.
  • Lawyer: So you think that because Pharmaceutical companies make money out of vaccines does not bias how they approach the promotion of their own products.
  • Dr. Plotkin: I imagine it biases them in favor of their vaccines but so does most of the scientific world.
  • Lawyer: Are you saying most of the scientific world is biased because of financial affiliations?
  • Dr. Plotkin: No, I am saying that most of the scientific world believes hat vaccines protect children against serious diseases.
  • Lawyer: Do you have a peer-reviewed study that actually suggests what you just said?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Absolutely Yes.
  • Lawyer: We will make a demand for that too. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: You can buy one of the vaccines textbooks which contains thousands of references showing that vaccines work and are safe.
  • Lawyer: So from the 182 million dollar sale (Children's hospital of Philadelphia, the patent holder of Rotavirus vaccine, sold its interests to another company- Royalty Pharma at 182 million dollars. And Dr. Plotkin has his share in it.) do you believe that you received more or less than a million dollars? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I could have received more than a million dollars, I don't have an exact figure.
  • Lawyer: Are you entitled to similar remuneration as of your co-inventor on this patent?
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes.
  • Lawyer: Are you aware that he has stated publicly how much he received in that sale?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Am not aware of that.
  • Lawyer: If I told you he received approximately 6 million dollars, would that help you recall how much you received? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't recollect but whatever Paul (coinventor) has said is correct.
  • Lawyer: So 6 millions dollars is a lot of money?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes.
  • Lawyer: So if you received 6 million dollars would you remember? [LOL]
  • Dr. Plotkin: Haa. Actually councilor, No. I hesitate to say this because it sounds as if am some sort of idiot. But I really do not follow what income I get. I actually do not read my own tax returns.
Dr. Plotkin keeps reiterating he doesn't remember how much he received in sales of various patent sales and deals.
  • Lawyer asks about Immunization Action Coalition and its funding.
Around 1:33:40: 

  • Dr. Plotkin says he did everything with good intensions and he never did anything for money and he said he 'resents' the line of questioning that suggest that he did what he did, for funding.
  • Lawyer: No body suggesting that, you are suggesting that. [LOL]
  • Lawyer points out that Dr. Plotkin had published a study in 1969 which was funded by GSK (SmithKline at that time), specifying that Dr. Plotkin and his research had been funded by Pharma Companies from a very long time.
Upto 1:57:00:
  • Lawyers reads a long list of Biotech and Vaccine producing companies where Dr. Plotkin is a board member but he did not reveal these affiliations in the CV he had submitted to the defense lawyer.
Upto 2:09:00 (approx): Lawyer discusses various aspects of Pertussis various vaccines with Dr. Plotkin.
  • Lawyer reads a quote by Former Editor in Chief of New England Journal of Medicine and Professor at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Edmond J Safra, "Conflicts of interests and biases exist in virtually every field of Medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is not longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion which reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as the editor of New England Journal of Medicine."


  • The Lawyer discusses National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 with Dr. Plotkin.


  • Lawyer Talks about Vaccine for Children Program. Government pays pharma company for manufacturing the vaccine.  And Pharma companies are not liable for vaccine injuries, unless the injury is because of bad manufacturing. Then the Lawyer discusses about ACIP (Advisory Committee On Immunization Practices, which recommends the CDC on various vaccines and vaccination programs.


  • Lawyer: Are the members of ACIP government officers? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No.

2:42:28: Exposing ACIP.

  • Lawyer: When was the Rotavirus vaccine approved for universal use as recommended by ACIP?
  • Dr. Plotkin: In 1990s. 
  • Lawyer: June 25, 1998. On that day June 25, 1998, you and your co-inventor Paul Offit and Fred already had a patent on Rotavirus vaccine. Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Were you at the ACIP  meeting when they first approved when they first approved Rotavirus vaccine for universal pediatric use? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I believe I was. 
  • Lawyer: What was Paul Offit's role at that meeting? Dr. Plotkin: I don't remember. Lawyer: He was on ACIP. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: He was on ACIP yes. But I am sure he was not allowed to vote for the licensure of Rotateq. Then the Lawyer step by step exposes and completely destroys Dr. Plotkin and his co-inventors naked conflict of interest. You have to watch this part.


  • Lawyer talks about ACIP's secretive 'working group' meetings.


  • Do vaccination create a systemic change in the body?


  • Does the immune system consist of more than antibody producing cells?


  • Modern immunology never completely understood the complete sequence of events starting from vaccination to generation of immunity. Correct?
  • Does the vaccination cause any other bodily changes other than immune response?


  • So vaccine is nothing but a piece of virus or bacteria? That is all it contains?
  • Then the Lawyer asks about Clinical Trials.


  • Was the DPT withdrawn from the US market? Because of safety concerns?


  • The Lawyer talks about Dr. Peter Aaby and his Study which states that DPT kills more children from various other causes than it protects them from Diphtheria, Pertussis or Tetanus. Click Here. Actually Mortality in DPT vaccinated infants and young children is 10 times more than in unvaccinated children. Click Here
  • Dr. Plotkin: Dr. Pete Aaby's work was done in non placebo control method. WHO does not recommend any change in vaccination practice after going over Dr. Peter's studies.


  • Lawyer: In conducting pre licensing clinical trials for vaccines, what is the difference between solicited and unsolicited reactions? Who decides what questions be put on the solicited list of questions?

3:16:00: About NO Placebo-Control Randomized trials regarding Vaccine Safety, before licensing.

  • Lawyer asks about Hep B vaccines (1 by GSK and 1 by Merck). For Recombivax HB (Hep B vaccine by Merck), how long was the safety review period in the prelicensure clinical trial for this vaccine? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't know. 
  • Lawyer provides Merck's document about this vaccine study and asks "How long does it say safety was monitored after each dose?" 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Lets see. ah 5 days. 
  • Lawyer: Is 5 days long enough to detect adverse reactions that occur after 5 days? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No, they will be reported separately as observed in the clinic.  
  • Lawyer asks: Does the Manufacturers manual provide anything other than 5 days of safety monitoring after each dose? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It does not mention anything specifically. No. 
  • Lawyer: Is 5 days long enough to detect and autoimmune issue developing after 5 days? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: is 5 days long enough to detect seizure that arises after 5 days. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Unlikely to have a seizure after 5 days. 
  • Lawyer: Is 5 days long enough to detect any neurological defect that arose after 5 days? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No.
  •  Lawyer: Is there any control group in this trial? There is not control group correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Ah not.. lets see.... well they mentioned 3258 doses were given to 1252 healthy adults. 
  • Lawyer: That's right, it does not mention any control group Dr. Plotkin. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It does not mention any control group.
  •  Lawyer: If you turn to section 6.2, what is the list of average adverse reactions listed in this section? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: These are reports of adverse reactions that likely were reported to the VAERS system. 
  • Lawyer: Under Immune system disorders does it say that there were hypersensitivity reactions including anaphylactic reactions, bronchospasm, urticaria reported within first few hours after vaccination? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Are there reports of hypersensitivity syndrome? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Reports of arthritis? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Amm it is mentioned.  
  • Lawyer: It also reports SLE, Lupus like syndrome, vasculitis and polyarteritis Nodosa. Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes, that's what it states. 
  • Lawyer: It also states under the nervous system disorder it states that after vaccination there have been reports of Gillian Barre Syndrome? Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: As well as Multiple Sclerosis, exacerbation of multiple sclerosis, Myelitis including Transverse Myelitis, Seizure, Peripheral neuropathy including Bell's palsy, Radiculopathy, Muscle weakness, Hypothecia and Encephalitis, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Correct. (Dr. Plotkin shamelessly tries to convince people that these 'things' could happen to people regardless of if they had the vaccination or not and that its not proof that vaccine caused these adverse effects). 
  • Lawyer: When you say that Multiple Sclerosis was studies with regard to Hep B vaccine and no causal relationship was proved, you are referring to the 2011 IOM report I assume. "Inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship" the report says. They didn't know, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: (Tries to convince that there is not casual relationship.) 
  • Lawyer: To determine a causal relationship you need a randomized control trial which was not done before the licensure of this vaccine was it? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Given that this vaccine now appears on CDC's vaccine recommended list, isn't it true that it would now be considered unethical to conduct such a study today. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. It would be ethically difficult. 

  • Lawyer: Lets take a look at Engerix B, the other Hep B vaccine (GSK) that you recommend Faith to take it. Do you know how long adverse reactions were reviewed after each dose of that vaccine in the prelicensure clinical trial? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer hands Dr. Plotkin a manufacturers insert for Engerix B manual. Lawyer points out that safety review period was 4 days. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: But that doesn't mean that they didn't collect adverse reactions data after 4 days. 
  • Lawyer: Are you saying that they collected the data after 4 days but didn't disclose it here in violation of code of Federal regulations? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I dare say that they collected the adverse reactions for a longer period. 
  • Lawyer: Is 4 days long enough to detect and autoimmune reaction that arises after 4 days? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No (same line of questions as were asked for Recombivax B.) 
  • Lawyer: And there were no placebo group. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It doesn't mention there was a control group. Then same line of questioning as for Recombivax B. 


  • Lawyer points out that efficacy of the vaccines was monitored for 18 months, but safety was monitored only for 4 or 5 days.


  • Lawyer starts questioning about Polio vaccine by Sanofi. (IPV). Manufacture's insert mentions that safety review period of this vaccine was only 48 hours. Also IPV was given along with DTP in that study, so the lawyer asks "how could you assess if an adverse reaction was from DPT or IPV?" 


  • Lawyer starts questioning about MMR. Manufacturer's insert for MMR2 states that there was NO pre licensure clinical trials done. Dr. Plotkin disagrees and there is a bit of argument and the lawyer. Dr. Plotkin says that there are numerous studies confirming its safety and efficacy. When the lawyer insists on providing the proof of those studies, Dr. Plotkin asks him to look it up in his book (book that he authored). The Lawyers asks him to turn up to the page where those trials are. Dr. Plotkin opens a page and shows a table, the lawyer politely asks him to show him a Pre licensure clinical study with a placebo group, because that's what FDA rules say. Then the lawyer talks about the adverse reactions mentioned in the manufacturer's insert. 


  • Discussion about Hib vaccine starts. Safety review period: 30 days. He points out that 3.5% of the subjects experienced serious adverse events. Lawyer points out that since there was no control group in the study, the manufacturer would decide which adverse event was related to the vaccine and which is not. Dr. Plotkin says there is a safety board set up to determine which adverse events were related to the vaccine. The lawyer points out that the members of the safety board are chosen by the vaccine manufacturing company. Lawyer talks about Hong Kong study.

4:00:00: Gardasil (HPV).

  • Lawyer: 2.3% of  children who received Gardasil had developed autoimmune disease. Talks about aluminum adjuvants and about Autoimmune/Inflammatory Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants (ASIA) (Yehuda Schoenfeld from Israel published a peer review study on this. CLICK HERE). Lawyer presents a book 'Vaccines and Autoimmunity'. There are 77 contributors are there for this book. All are professors from well reputed institutions. The Lawyers keep pointing out numbers game and statistics game being played in the study. 


  • The Lawyer blasts Dr. Plotkin with a array of question regarding how many vaccines and how many doses a child has to take and why there is not extended safety follow up study along with a control-placebo group.


  • Lawyer asks about various side effects of each vaccine. Dr. Plotkin fails to provide any concrete proof in the form of a reference to clinical data. He keeps lecturing about 'Science' and 'Truth'. The Lawyers asks. "So, is our point just to trust you? vs actually have the data to support?" Then the Lawyer asks Dr. Plotkin about thrombocytopenia (decrease in platelets) and if that can be caused by the Autoimmune Syndrome. Dr. Plotkin replies, "That is one of the reasons, yes." 
  • Lawyer: Can MMR vaccine cause thrombocytopenia? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: What is Brachial Neuritis? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It is basically a reaction to a local injection, where you have pain in the arm. 
  • Lawyer: "I am gonna read you the definition of Brachial neuritis from John Hopkins Medicine and you can tell me if you agree or disagree with it." And the Lawyer read the definition which is scary and not as simple as Dr. Plotkin has said. CLICK HERE for the definition. Lawyer discusses about various adverse reactions that can possibly occur from Vaccinations.


  • Lawyer talks about IOM's Vaccine Safety Report of 1991, where IOM could not conclusively say whether DPT could cause autism or not.


  • Discussion about adverse reactions of Pertussis and Rubella vaccines published by IOM 1991.

5:01:09: LOL funny retort from the Lawyer.


  • Lawyer asks if we could give childhood immunization schedule to adults and check the adverse reactions in them vs a placebo control group. (This I am sure would have occurred in the minds of lot of parents. Because children can not really tell what they are experiences after those shots are given to them).

5:07:34:  HRSA funding 'Vaccine Safety Report' !!

  • Lawyer talks about 1994 IOM Vaccine Safety Report. Causal relation between 14 adverse events and the vaccine were found and causal relation for 4 adverse events were rejected. 38 remaining conditions, IOM couldn't make a conclusive decision. 
  • Lawyer: In 2011 IOM issues another Vaccine Safety Report looking into 158 most commonly claimed vaccine associated serious adverse effects following vaccinations. Do you know who commissioned and paid for that report? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Would it be surprising to you if I say HRSA, an agency that defends against vaccine injury claims commissioned that report? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Wouldn't surprise me. 
  • Lawyer: Did you provide information to the IOM committee conducting this review? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't recall specifically I did or not, a lot of people ask for my opinions and I give my opinion. 
  • The Lawyer points out that Dr. Plotkin was on the list of 'reviewers' and that Dr. Plotkin was 'consulting' for all the 4 major vaccine maker at that time. (Implying the independence and credibility of the 2011 IOM report is questionable). And Dr. Plotkin's dealing with the vaccine making companies was not mentioned in that report. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know how many other individuals who were involved in reviewing or compiling this report were receiving money from Pharma companies making vaccines that's not disclosed in this report? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I have no knowledge of that. 
  • Lawyer: You provided hand written comments to the IOM for this report? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I reviewed the report so I would have made comments. Whether hand written or not, am not sure because my hand writing is non readable. (paraphrasing). 
  • Lawyer: This report says that 14 of the 158 adverse reactions in question, were found to have causal relation with the vaccine. 135 out of 158 adverse effects reviewed it found that it could not find sufficient evidence linking them to vaccines. The same report also says that there is not evidence to either accept or reject causal relation between Tdap or dTap and Autism.


  • The Lawyers holds Dr. Plotkin in a tight situation with the repeating the question "Since the IOM could not find evidence that Tdap or dTap could or could not cause Autism, isn't it premature to make unequivocal sweeping statements that vaccines do not cause Autism." (You can see the arrogance of Dr. Plotkin which is characteristic of doctors and scientists these days. He keeps brushing aside legitimate concerns of parents as 'ridiculous statements on the web. Nobody was talking about web here, the IOM report was done because there were overwhelming complaints and reports from parents and their primary physicians that vaccines might have cause autism in their children.)


  • Lawyer: And so for that reason (for the sake of child's health, Dr. Plotkin had said in his previous statement) you are ok to tell the parents that dTap or Tdap does not cause autism even though the science isnt there yet to support that claim?
  • Dr. Plotkin: Absolutely.

5:44:22: About prospective study or total health outcomes of Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated children.

  • Lawyer: Dr. Plotkin, has there ever been a study which looked at the total health outcomes of children following CDC's vaccination schedule and those who are completely unvaccinated? such as Faith. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Not that I am aware of. No, I don't think so. 
  • Lawyer: Why has that study not been done? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Probably because it is considered malpractice not to vaccinate a child. 
  • Lawyer: So you are saying that such a prospective study might be impossible because that might leave a child unvaccinated? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: What about retrospective study? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I supposed could be done but that wouldn't be randomized. 
  • Lawyer: CDC and Pharma companies, even vaccine efficacy studies (which are not randomized) are done all the time. Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: If the data is there, why not do a study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children to look for the total health outcomes to know what the real risks are for the vaccinations? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: That would be difficult to conduct such a study. 
  • Lawyer: Pharmaceutical Industry makes around 20 billion dollars and the CDC spends hundreds of millions of dollars on vaccines every year and yet you think that the resources could be used to done a single solitary study comparing health outcome of  a for-profit-product given to every child in this country to assess what the rates of adverse reactions are in children who use those products and those who don't? 


  • Would you throw out the studies that are not randomied which you rely upon in that book that you wrote?


  • Lawyer: Dr. Plotkin, what's an ICD 9 Code? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: That's a way of coding diseases for remuneration purposes. 
  • Lawyer: So when a doctor diagnoses a patient there is a code that they would enter into the system. And the codes are published by the American Medical Association. Correct? 
  • Dr, Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: "The exhibit (document) that I just handed you is the 2015 ICD9 CM professional edition for physician's code book." Lawyer points out at the code v64.07 and which stands for "Vaccinations not carried out for religious reasons." 
  • Lawyer: Could it be not feasible to compare children who have this coding with those are being vaccinated, who are in similar communities, have similar demographics, in other words, avoid as much as possible other possible confounders (differences in socioeconomically status, education status or age and other differences between two set of groups that are involved in a study)? 
  • Dr. Plotkin doesn't agree with him. 
  • Lawyer: " Why is that you can control for confounders in various other vaccine studies including vaccine studies that are citing in your book but you cant control for confounders in the study where you could compare health status of the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated children? 
  • Lawyer: Can you tell me a confounder that is not easy to control for? (LOL Dr. Plotkin in very uneasy situation here).


  • Lawyer: Are you aware that advocacy groups, other people interested in this issue have been calling for this exact study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children for 30 years now? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't spend a lot of time on the web, so I don't know if such a study is being requested. 
  • Lawyer: But you do read IOM reports and CDC reports. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: And you never come across any IOM or CDC report where they specifically addressed the repeated calls for such a study? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Ok. Would it be surprising to you if I told you those (that CDC and IOM document that there are calls for such a study) existed? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No I wouldn't be surprised. 
  • Lawyer: Would you be surprised that the CDC in fact issued an entire report regarding conducting such a study and calls for conducting such a study?


The Only Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated Study: A Pilot Comparative Study Of Health of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated 6 to 12 year old US Children. Authors: Professors at the Dept. of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Jackson State University. (Published in The Journal Of Translational Science.)

  • Dr. Plotkin: "This journal is not one of those multiple so called Predatory Journals (fraudulent journal) that we are trying to deal with. 
  • Lawyer: So is anybody in any university that publishes anything negative about the vaccines is predatory? 
  • Lawyer: The study says that the Vaccinated children are 30 times more likely to have Allergic Rhinitis, 3.9 times more likely to have Allergies, 4.2 times as likely to have ADHD, 4.2 times as likely to have Autism Spectrum Disorders, 2.9 times likely to have Eczema, 5.2 times likely to have learning disability, 3.7 times likely to have neuro developmental disorder, 2.4 times likely to have any chronic condition.


Another study by same researchers- "Preterm Birth, Vaccination and Neuro-Developmental Disorders (NDD)- A Cross Sectional Study of 6 to 12 year Old Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated Children."

Increased NDD and preterm birth were found in vaccinated children in this study. Lawyer: Shouldn't more and better studies be done to either confirm or refute these Pilot studies?

6:18: 50: 

Discusses Peter Aaby study, where he found that children who received DPT in the first 6 months died 10 times more than those who didn't receive the vaccine. This study was randomized (because children were allocated to vaccinated vs unvaccinated group purely based on their birthday.)


  • Lawyer: Any reason to believe that life of a child in developing country is less that life of a child in developed country?

6:35:40: Alum Adjuvant in Vaccines.


  • Alum (Aluminum adjuvant) can be collected from the injection site months or years after IM injection. Aluminum injected in body can travel to the brain. 
  • Lawyer presents a study from the journal 'Vaccine' (Dr. Plotkin was editor in that journal). In this study, they found Aluminum in brain of the rabbits. 
  • Lawyer presents another study (2009) this study showed Aluminum injected into rabbits showed motor neuron degeneration. The researchers used alum dose equivalent to doses used in vaccinations.

6:45:50:  Studies Of Aluminum in Brain.

6:51:30: Regarding IL6 and Brain Inflammation.

  • Lawyer presents a book and asks, "Dr. Plotkin, does increase in IL6 in the brain liked to Autism like features in animals?" 
  • Dr. Plotkin: "I am not aware of such an affect but that may be possible." 
  • Lawyer: Are you familiar with the study 'Inhibition of IL6 trans signaling in the brain increases social ability in the BTVR model of Autism? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: pff No. 
  • Lawyer: Are you familiar with the study 'Maternal Immune Activation Alters Fetal Brain Development Through IL6?' Published in the Journal of Neuro Science? Is that one of the journals that you consider respectable? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: This (another study) was out of the California Institute of Technology (Cal Tech). They had done a number of studies on Immune Activation and Neurological Disorders. And they found a connection between Immune activation and Neurological disorders, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: And one of the study findings they had was that immune activation alters fetal brain development through IL6, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well as I said before IL6 is an important cytokine and it can be activated in variety of infections and diseases, not just vaccines. 
  • Lawyer: But it can be caused by vaccines correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Immune activation is objective of vaccines. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know what is the maximum amount of Aluminum that is injected into a child who follows the CDC schedule? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Ah I haven't done the arithmetic but I believe it would amount to several milligrams.  
  • Lawyer: The group out of the University of British Columbia that's out of the Dept. of Ophthalmology and Visual sciences, I will present you a letter from one of the Professors that runs the lab in that group. Have you seen this letter before? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: This letter is from the group of British Columbia that you mentioned before and its addressed to the HHS, correct? As well as NIH? FDA? And CDC? Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes (for each question). 
  • Lawyer: Can you read the first paragraph? Dr. Plotkin (reading): "I am writing to you in regard to Aluminum adjuvants in vaccines...." (the letter speaks of Autism Spectrum Disorders linked to Aluminum Adjuvants)
  • Lawyer: Now can you read the last sentence in the next paragraph? 
  • Dr. Plotkin (reading): Paraphrasing: Aluminum causes brain inflammation and Neuro Developmental Disorders in children
  • Lawyer: And just the next paragraph. 
  • Dr. Plotkin (reading): Despite the foregoing.... the safety of Aluminum adjuvants in vaccines has been not properly studied in humans even though pursuant to the recommended vaccine schedule published by CD, the baby may be injected with upto 3.675 micrograms of  Aluminum by 6 months of age." 
  • Lawyer: And just the next sentence. 
  • Dr. Plotkin (reading): In regard to the above, my belief that the CDC's claim on its website that vaccines do not cause Autism is wholly unsupported." 
  • Then Dr. Plotkin goes on to say that the Author of the letter (the doctor from University of British Columbia). 
  • Lawyer: Dr. Shaw studies Aluminum regularly right? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. Lawyer: 
  • Lawyer: Do you study Aluminum regularly? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. [CLICK HERE for Dr. Shaw's study].


  • The lawyer presents two more letters from two other researchers who investigate aluminum adjuvants. 
  • Lawyer: Is the content of the letters similar to the letter which you read before? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: One of them is a French group and I would like to say that ahh..." 
  • Counsellor for the defendant (for whose sake Dr. Plotkin is here) interrupts and says, "just answer in yes or no Dr. Plotkin, we need to get you out of there." [LOL] 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes.


  • Lawyer hands a study to Dr. Plotkin titled 'Aluminum in Brain tissue in Autism' published in Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology. CLICK HERE
  • Lawyer: The study found that some of the highest values of Aluminum in human tissue are recorded in the brains of these Autistic children who died prematurely. The study found that the Aluminum was found in the Immune Cells of the Brain, including within the immune cells travelling into the brain. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Ahm yes. But they were not associated with neurons. 
  • Lawyer: They found Aluminum in neurons as well Dr. Plotkin. Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: But mostly in other cells. 
  • Lawyer: And immune system related cells, right? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: cells that travel, yes. 
  • Lawyer: What is encephalitis? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Inflammation of the Brain. Lawyer: What is encephalopathy? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, its vague term that means something is wrong with the Brain. 
  • Lawyer: And what is encephalomyelitis? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Inflammation of the Brain.
  • Lawyer: Do all 5 of the dTap containing vaccines sold in US list encephalopathy within 7 days of a prior pertussis containing vaccine as a contraindication? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do all 3 of the Hepatitis vaccines sold in this country list encephalitis or encephalopathy as reported adverse reaction in section 6.2 of their product inserts? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do all flu vaccines sold in this country list encephalopathy and encephalomyelitis as an adverse reaction in section 6.2 of their insert? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Does the only Chicken Pox vaccine sold in this country list encephalitis as reported adverse reaction? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Why do you think Brain swelling is reported after all these vaccinations? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Anything that happens after a vaccination is reported as a contraindication, that does not mean it has causal relationship. [Can you believe the level of shit?] 
  • Lawyer: What is the total quantity antigen in most pediatric vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well its very variable. Upto 50 mg, depends entirely on the vaccine. 
  • Lawyer: Are there any ingredients in vaccines that you are aware of that can damage neurons? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Haa, Not that am aware of, No. 
  • Lawyer: Are there any ingredients in vaccines that can damage human cells? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Oh well that depends on the concentrations and so forth. Human cells are of course susceptible to lots of substances but again, its very much dependent on the concentration. 

7:06:55: About Monkey Kidney Cells in Vaccines.

  • Lawyer: Do any of the vaccines in the vaccination schedule have Monkey Kidney cells in them? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Oh well, the polio vaccine does. 
  • Lawyer: Are the monkey kidneys used in making the polio vaccine removed from the monkey while its still alive? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Ah these days much of the polio vaccine is produced in a continuous cell line derived from monkeys rather than live monkeys. 
  • Lawyer: What do you mean by continuous cell lines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Cells that continue to multiply. 
  • Lawyer: Cells that continue to multiply are typically called cancer cells right
  • Dr. Plotkin: It depends on the circumstances in the cells but its true that cancer cells do continue to replicate indefinitely. The Vero cells (continuously multiplying cells of monkey kidney cells) are only used at certain passage levels. They are not used in you know, thousand passages further on. 
  • Lawyer: In relation to the final antigen in the polio vaccine, how much monkey kidney cell material is there in the final product? Is it same amount? much or less? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No, I cant give you figure off hand but I am pretty sure that the amount of Polio antigen is superior to the amount of Kidney antigen. 
  • Lawyer: but you are not sure. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't recall the exact amounts. 
  • Lawyer: Money cellular material that remains in the vaccine is considered either impurity or by product in the manufacturing process, correct? Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 

7:09:54:  About Calf Serum in Vaccines.

  • Lawyer: Does any of the vaccines in the schedule contain Blood Serum of calves or other bovine? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, calf serum is used to make the vaccine but its is removed before the vaccine is used because you don't want to sensitize the vaccinee to the calves. 
  • Lawyer: Meaning if there was calf serum remaining in the vaccine, the child could develop antibodies to cows or cow products. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. Lawyer hands him 'Vaccine Excipient and Media Summary' and asks, "Who produces this document? The CDC correct? or the FDA? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I think its the FDA. 
  • Lawyer: And this lists, the ingredients contained in various vaccines, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 

7:12:05: About Gelatin from Pigs in Vaccines.

  • Lawyer: Can you go to KINRIX in first page (dTap, IPV). Do you see in the third line down it says calf serum? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, that is used to grow polio virus. But its removed. 
  • Lawyer: Do any of the vaccines in the schedule contain embryonic guinea pig cells or cultures? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't think any of the current vaccine is made in embryonic guinea pig cells. Varicella vaccine has passage through guinea pig cells but may not be made in guinea pig cells. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know any vaccines that contain cow's milk in it. Or any product derived from cow's milk. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: oh well casein is there. 
  • Lawyer: Dr. Plotkin if there is casein in the vaccine, wouldn't the child get sensitized to it? Correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, am not sure about that. 
  • Lawyer: You are not sure about that anymore? [LOL]. 
  • Lawyer: Does any vaccine contain egg protein? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Oh yes influenza vaccine. 
  • Lawyer: Do they remain in the final product?
  •  Dr. Plotkin: I believe they do yes. Not in huge amounts but there are traces certainly. 
  • Lawyer: Do any vaccines contain gelatin from pigs? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. Lawyer: 
  • Lawyer: Do any vaccines contain gelatin from cows? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I think in Muslim countries they try to do that but i think mostly its from pig. 
  • Lawyer: Do any vaccine contain recombinant GMO yeast? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes I imagine so, yes. 
  • Lawyer: Are there any other animal products, parts, cells material or any other kind that you are aware of that are present in the pediatric schedule? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Aside from trace amounts, No. (what kind of answer is that?) 

7:15:00 (approx.): About Fetal Tissue in Vaccines:

  •  Lawyer: Do any of the vaccines on schedule contain MRC5 Human diploid cells? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: What are they? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Rubella, Varicella, Hepatitis A, um let us see.... 
  • Lawyer: What are MRC5 cells? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: They are human fibroblasts cell strain. 
  • Lawyer: How are they created? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: They are created from fetal tissue from a fetus that was aborted by maternal choice (Do you understand why they push for 'abortion freedom?') and the fibroblast cells are cultivated from that tissue. The fibroblast cells replicate for about 50 passages and then die. 
  • Lawyer: So MRC5 cells are cultured cell lines from aborted fetal tissue? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Not cell lines, cell strains. 
  • Lawyer: They live for 50 generations and die, then how are more MRC5 cells generated? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: A seed stock is made from the early passage cells so that one can go back to the seed stock, let say like 8 th passage and make new cells at 20th passage and use those to make vaccines. 
  • Lawyer: So these cell strains are human cells. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do any vaccines contain WI38 Human diploid lung fibroblasts. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: well they used to. I don't think they make anything from them anymore. They have been replaced by MRC5. 
  • Lawyer: So you are not aware of any vaccine has in its final formulation WI38 Human diploid lung fibroblasts? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: MRC5 is now used. 
  • Lawyer: And WI38 was created from an aborted fetus? They took the lung tissue from the aborted fetus? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: And from that they have grown the cell strain. Lawyer: Do any vaccine contain human albumin. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do any vaccine contain recombinant human albumin? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: What is this? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Its made by genetic engineering. 
  • Lawyer asks about Albumin binding to Alum adjuvant and that could sensitize the baby. 
  • Dr. Plotkin replies, "I don't know answer to that question." 

7:25:40: About Human Cells, Products, DNA and Albumin in Vaccines.

  • Lawyer: Vaccines that contain human products in them, may also contain human DNA and protein. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: They may. 
  • Lawyer: Isn't it true that human DNA in vaccines is typically purposefully fragmented to below 500 base pairs in length? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Isn't it true that MMR2 contains 150 ng cell substrate double strand DNA and single strand DNA per dose purposely fragmented to approx. 215 base pair in length? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: And in Verovax (vaccine for chicken pox) manufacturer is using WI38 and MRC5; contains approx.. 2microgram of cell substrate DS DNA or approx. 1 million fragments of human DNA? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It may be true. 
  • Lawyer: Hep A vaccine also contains millions of fragments of human DNA. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know that DNA below 500 base pairs are now known to be able to insert themselves into living cells with which they come into contact? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It wont impact the vaccinee. 
  • Lawyer: Are you familiar with Insertional mutagenesis? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do you have any study to show that injecting millions of pieces of DNA into babies is safe. 
  • Lawyer: Is it possible that it can cause cancer? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Anything is possible, but there is not data to support that. 
  • Lawyer: Is there data that to support that it doesn't do that? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. Observations made over millions of vaccinees. (But who observes if the cancers being caused today are due to vaccines? That observation is never done. Dr. Plotkin is lying here.) 
  • Lawyer: And you have studies to show that, right? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: The studies are easily available in terms of vaccine safety studies that have been done by many many people. 
  • Lawyer: So that would be very easy for you to direct me some of those. (Dr. Plotkin, millions of people are getting cancer ever since vaccines have become routine practice globally. Who knows which cancer is being caused by which ingredient or by insertional mutagenesis? There are no studies on these whatsoever.

7:30:40: About Other Viruses from Other Animals Infecting the Vaccines.

  • Lawyer talks about SV40 (simian virus 40, virus from primates contaminated polio virus vaccines and infected the recipients of these vaccines.) 
  • Lawyer: Are you aware of any bovine virus that is in any of these vaccines? 
  • Lawyer: Are you aware of any virus from any other animal other than bovine and simian, that is present in any of the vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes, there is a pig virus present in one of the Rota virus vaccines. (Serco virus 2). 
  • Lawyer: Are there any Retroviruses that are in any of the vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Any Prions? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Any Human viruses that are in any of the vaccines, apart from the virus that is intended by the vaccine. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No.


  • Lawyer: Are you aware of how many micrograms of 2-phenonoxyethanol a child following the vaccine schedule would be injected with? (Close to around 100 micrograms is the answer)
  •  Lawyer: Do you know the safe levels in terms of that ingredient? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I am not aware of any toxicity associated with 2-phenoxyethanol. Its a very harmless substance as far as I know. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know any vaccine in the childhood schedule that contains Ferric Nitrate? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No, I don't recall that. 
  • Lawyer: Do you remember how many micrograms of Polysorbate 80 a child following vaccine schedule would be injected with? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't have the amount, No. 


  • Lawyer presents Dr. Plotkin with exhibit 40, and reminds Dr. Plotkin that he had previously said that WI38 is not present in final product. On page 3 for MMR and MMRV the ingredient list shows WI38 Human Diploid Lung Fibroblast.

7:36:34: Aluminum Adjuvant- Alum- Binding to Proteins and Creating Unwanted Antigens.

  • Lawyer: Isn't it true that the Adjuvant does not bind only to the target antigen but also to the impurities and byproducts of the manufacturing process? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Probably yes. 
  • Lawyer: And those impurities and byproducts are all listed in exhibit no 40, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Once the impurities and byproducts are bound to the Aluminum, the body may also develop antibodies to these impurities, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: May. But not necessarily. 
  • Lawyer: The entire purpose of the Aluminum binding to a protein structure be it an antigen or some other protein structure, is to cause an immune response and develop antibodies, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. But the protein should be of right size and presentation. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know if the protein structure of any of the ingredients listed in exhibit 40 are not the right size to bind to Alum? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, I think that its highly unlikely that Monosodium glutamate for example will cause an immune response, amino acids are highly unlikely to induce an immune response. 
  • Lawyer: Anything else? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Thing like calf serum if they are present, would induce an immune response. But the things on this list, vast majority are unlikely to do so. 
  • Lawyer: Because they are not protein structures. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: They are not proteins or they are very small. 
  • Lawyer: How about human Albumin, that would be large enough to cause an immune response, correct?  
  • Dr. Plotkin: The fact that it is human, individuals might not respond as a foreign protein. 
  • Lawyer: Right, maybe not alone but when bound to Alum then it might, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: It might but am not aware of evidence that does. 
  • Lawyer: Do you have a study that looked into that issue? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I have not read such a study, no. 
  • Lawyer: How about the human DNA? 
  • Do you believe that the DNA strands can bind to alum? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No.  
  • Lawyer: Why is that? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't see any chemical reason why it should. 
  • Lawyer: Any reason why it shouldn't? Do you know for sure or no? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I have not done the experiment, No. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know whether it (Alum) will bind to any of the cellular debris from MRC5 or WI38? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I think it could. But I don't know if it does. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know if Alum could bind to any of the gelatin from pigs? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Its unlikely. 
  • Lawyer: Why is that? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't think it could but I don't know that for a fact. 
  • Lawyer: Could Alum bind to egg protein? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Possibly. 
  • Lawyer: And to Casein? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Possible but I am not aware of any evidence. 
  • Lawyer: You don't know. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't know. 


  • Lawyer: In your work related to vaccines, how many fetuses were part of that work? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: My personal work, two. 
  • Lawyer hands over an article to Dr. Plotkin in which he was listed as an author. 
  • Lawyer: This study took place at the Wister Institute correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: How many fetuses were used in the study described in the article? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Quite a few but the answer to my previous question was what did I use to make vaccines, the answer was two. 
  • Lawyer: Wasn't this study related to making vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: This study involves 74 fetuses, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't remember how many. 
  • Lawyer guides him to page 12 and its mentioned that 76 fetuses were used. 
  • Lawyer: And these fetuses were all 3 months or older when aborted, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: And these were all normally developed fetuses, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: These fetuses were aborted for social and psychiatric reasons correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: What organs did you harvest from these fetuses? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I didn't personally harvest any. But whole range of tissues were harvested by co-workers. 
  • Lawyer: These fetuses were then cut up to little pieces right? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: And they were cultured? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Some of the pieces of the fetus were pituitary gland that were chopped up to pieces, including the lung of the fetuses? Included skin? Kidney? Spleen? heart? Tongue? 
  • Dr. Plotkin replies 'yes' for each question. 
  • Lawyer: In your entire career, how many fetuses have you worked with? 
  • Lawyer: Are you aware that one of the objections of vaccinations by the plaintiff is the inclusion of aborted fetuses tissue in the development of these vaccines and the fact that its part of the ingredient of the vaccines. 
  • Dr. Plotkin tells that Catholic church said that I am the one who will go to hell for inclusion of aborted fetuses, so those who need the vaccines can take the vaccines. 
  • Lawyer: Do you know if the mother is catholic? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I have no idea. 
  • Lawyer: Some of these were from psychiatric conditions, correct? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't know that.


  • Lawyer: Have you ever used Orphans to study for experimental vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Have you ever used mentally handicapped in study or vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't recollect ever doing that. In 1960s it was not an uncommon practice. 
  • Lawyer: There is an article titled 'Attenuation of RA273 in Rubella virus in WI38 Diploid Cells.' One of the things that article says is that 13 seronegative mentally ill children were given RA273 vaccine. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Ok, in that case, that's what I did. 
  • Lawyer: Have you ever expressed that its better to perform experiments on those less likely to be able to contribute to society? Such as handicapped children or adults? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't remember expressing that but its possible and again I repeat, in the 1960s that was more or less common practice. I have since changed my mind. But those were... that was a long time ago.

7:54:00: Dr. Plotkin's Belgian Congo Polio Vaccine Experiments Might Be Linked to HIV Creation. Click Here.

  • Lawyer: Do you remember writing a letter to editor of ethics committee on human experimentation? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't remember specifically but I may well have. Lawyer presents Dr. Plotkin with exhibit 43 (his letter to the editor)and asks "Did you write this letter?"
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Ok. Is one of the things you wrote, "the question is whether we are to have experiments performed on fully functioning adults and on children who are potentially contributors to society or to perform initial studies in children and adults who are human in form but not social potential.
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Have you ever used babies of mothers in prison to study on experimental vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Have you ever used individuals under colonial rule to study under experimental vaccines? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Did you do  so in Belgian Congo? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Does that experiment involve almost a million people? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Well, alright, yes. 
  • Lawyer: Did you ever visit Belgian Congo and  Ruanda-Urundi? How many times? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Once. 
  • Lawyer: When was that visit? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: 1959. 
  • Lawyer: And how long were you there? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Couple of months. 
  • Lawyer: What places did you visit? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: names some places- Leopoldville, Stanleyville, Kivu, Bukavu, Burundi (visited in the order) could have been other places but I don't remember. 
  • Lawyer: What were you doing in Leopoldville? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I was examining the data on oral polio vaccination. In Stanleyville- visited chimpanzee lab and talking to scientists about polio. Kivu: just visit. Bukavu: Just visiting. Burundi: Some discussions with scientists about polio. 
  • Lawyer: Did you vaccinate anyone personally in the entire trip? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: No. I also visited Kikwit for a couple of days and observed a vaccination camp there. 
  • Lawyer: Did you observe vaccination camps in any of the other cities? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Stanleyville probably. 
  • Lawyer: What were you doing in Ruanda-Urundi? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Talking to people about polio vaccine.

8:02:52:  Plotkin Hates Religion:

  • Lawyer: Do you believe that someone can have a valid religious objection to refusing a vaccine?
  •  Dr. Plotkin: No. 
  • Lawyer: Do you take issue with religious beliefs? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: You said, "Vaccination is always under attack by religious zealots who believe that the will of God increase death and disease?" 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes, absolutely stand by that statement. 
  • Lawyer: Are you an atheist? 
  • Plotkin: yes. 
  • Lawyer: Do you believe that some people hold religious beliefs that are inherently unprovable? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes, am sure they do. 
  • Lawyer: Did you say that "Vaccination is always under attack by a legal system that profits from the failures most people to understand the risk benefit ratio or public health issues." 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Can you explain what you mean by that? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I mean that the risk from vaccines is considerably less than the risk from disease but people don't necessarily understand that"  


  • Lawyer: Is there a safe threshold of how many vaccines can be given at a time to a child? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: I don't know if the 6 currently given together has any problem.


  • Dr. Plotkin: I am doing this for free. 
  • Lawyer: But as you are sitting here today, you are receiving remuneration from all 4 major vaccine makers. 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes.


  • Discussion on papers written by Dr. Plotkin to the Royal Society disputing any connection between OPV vaccine and AIDS. [Journalist Hooper. Read: Hooper finds new evidence that Polio Vaccine created HIV]
  • 8:18:30: Dr. Plotkin: Are you accusing me of launching HIV? [LOL]
  • 8:20:00: In samples that predate 1959 are there any samples that were tested for HIV? Lawyer: Are you aware whether there exist any samples available of polio vaccine that was in the Belgium Congo anytime between 1959 to 1960?



  • Diphtheria vaccine produces antibodies to the bacteria's toxin only, not to the bacteria itself.


  • Lawyer: How to you define anti-vaxer? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: People who oppose vaccinations based on a variety of reasons, some of them being due to wrong inference from scientific data. 
  • Lawyer: If somebody were opposed to vaccination because they believed there was no sufficient data for them to make a decision about the actual risks, not the benefits, but the risks, would you consider that person an anti-vaxer? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Yes. 
  • Lawyer: Is there anybody who refuse a vaccine who you would not label as anti-vaxer? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: yes, if there are contraindications. (Who are you to decide for others?) 
  • Lawyer: So anybody who refuses to take vaccine is doing so based on misinformation? 
  • Dr. Plotkin: Generally speaking yes.


  • Dr. Plotkin admits that transmission of polio through gut is very less likely in US because of good hygiene and sewage. Also that IPV can not stop infection or transmission if a person gets infected with polio through gut.


  • Discussion on VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System). 900 deaths with tetanus vaccines over the last 10 years and 23,982 emergency rom visits after tetanus containing vaccines. 1256 permanent disabilities reported after tetanus containing vaccine in the last 10 years.

8:45:24: About VAERS and Gross Under Reporting of Vaccine Adverse Reactions.

  • Lawyer: Isn't it true that VAERS only receives a tiny fraction of the reportable adverse events after vaccination? Dr. Plotkin: Well I cant give you a percentage. 
  • 8:46:40: Report titled, "Electronic Support for Public Health-Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System." This was a study conducting by Harvard Medical School and was done by a grant from an agency within the HHS. It says, "Fewer than 1% of Vaccine Adverse Events are Reported."
  • 8:50:00: CDC was very co-operative the the study in the beginning but when there were 35,00 adverse effects generated and when they wanted to upload it to the VAERS, the CDC not co-operate. On page 5 the study says, "Real data transmission of non physician approved reports to the CDC were unable to commence as by the end of this project, the CDC has yet to respond to multiple requests to partner for this activity."
  • 8:55:00: VAERS report for all adverse events for all vaccines since Jan 2016: Reports 751 life threatening events and if that's only 1% of the actual adverse events, that would be 75100 life threatening events that would have been reported, correct? 
  • Lawyer: Would you support a study comparing health of vaccinated and unvaccinated children Dr. Plotkin? Dr. Plotkin: Yes.
  • Lawyer: Vaccine Safety Data is not available for public. Independent researchers want access to the VSD.

The End. Read and Share. Beat the AI Suppressive Algorithms. 


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